[Music]
I'm action Ratan three and fourteen
years to the day that a Labour
government took Britain to war in Iraq
killing or displacing or wounding
millions this is going underground
coming up in today's show we speak to
the vice president of Britain stop the
war moves with George Galloway as
president Trump prepares to meet with
iraqi prime minister haider al-abadi in
the White House and months ago I'd have
said to the party chairman clarify the
situation make a statement take
responsibility on behalf of the party
and clearly that hasn't happened and the
MPs of the lefkosa died this is the
government in in normal times in crisis
and chaos our job is affect both back
and make clear that were there is an
alternative just as the full budget had
to this new cabinet so the u-turn and
the budget should have gone through
curbless and it didn't we're on the
green outside the UK Parliament with
labour Ettore and a Scottish
nationalists all that coming up but
first in the early hours of the morning
14 years ago today the United States
together with the UK Australia and
Poland began military operations in Iraq
dubbed Operation Iraqi liberation or oil
this after an overwhelming vote in this
place - that invasion joining me back in
the studio is George Galloway George
welcome back to going underground let's
just begin with you reminding us about
your film the killings of Tony Blair
this was crowdfunded kick-started by
crowdfunding it raised a record amount
of money 165 thousand pounds when he
asked for 50 so thousands of people
wanted to participate in the killings of
Tony Blair I sold my house to finish the
film and it's now doing very well on
digital download on DVD not too many
cinemas showed it you know across the
world at film festivals and surprising
the 14 years
day of the Iraq war they wouldn't be
more interested way well partly the
budget that we have to promote it is so
really poor that a lot of people as yet
don't know that it's there but it's kind
of film that will last for years it's
never going to be out of date it is that
document of the crimes of Tony Blair and
I think it's rather well done certainly
it's been critically very well received
and if you didn't like tony blair before
you watch it i promise you you'll be
uncontrollable with anger at the end I
talked to a Labor backbenchers a lot of
them will say Araki is his old stuff the
UK public administration committee
reporting the Chilkoot failed to provide
closure on Iraq and that Iraq left an
indelible scar in UK politics why do you
think Blair hasn't been arrested that
uncharged well Parliament contains a
very large number of his supporters on
both sides of the house as Jeremy Corbyn
finds out every day the Acolytes of Tony
Blair are well dug in in the labour
administration the National Executive
Committee and of course overwhelmingly
in Parliament they still support the
Urraco they do and Blair still supports
he wouldn't do anything different in
terms of the invasion you might in terms
of the occupation because his point is
the gain and again things are better for
Iraqis now than they would have been
under saddam hussein yes but only a
madman believes that and in our film the
right honourable David Davis now a
cabinet member states explicitly that
Iraq was clearly better off before than
it is now there is no Iraq now it's
atomized into fiefdom
much of it still controlled by Isis and
al-qaeda and its mindset has deeply dug
in now in Iraq you caught them are
saying well it's all stuff the killing
of a million people can't be old stuff
the creation of Isis cannot be old stuff
because we're living with the
consequences of it and will do for many
decades
to come and of course it's not just the
war
it's the bankrupting or the political
class on both sides of the Atlantic
which led to Trump in the United States
it's one the reasons for brexit also
they no longer believe when the Great
and the good tell them something the men
in suits the experts opined that this or
that is the way to go people don't
believe that anymore and that's directly
related to Iraq don't forget that just
over 14 years ago we were - millions of
us on the streets of London we didn't
know then what we know now that there
were no weapons of mass destruction but
we knew in our water that we were being
lied to
and no good good common Authority of the
country and that this is related to the
hijacking of civil society as it were I
mean do you think of Prime Minister
today could do that because whatever the
size of the March is 53 percent 54% of
the time wanted a war in Iraq according
to polls well they have gone on to do it
again and again I mean it up they did it
in Libya gave it Cameron this time but
using exactly the same arguments echoed
by exactly the same journalists and
broadcasters and look how that turned
out arguably Libya's in an even worse
state than Iraq at the end of it all and
with more direct consequences for Europe
it's and Mediterranean countries and
then Syria they fanned the flames of
extremism they built a gigantic army of
terrorists many of them foreign fighters
who are all heading back to their own
countries and wickel that happens in
substantial numbers then we'll realize
just how mad our policy in the Middle
East has been you campaigned against
Saddam Hussein then you campaigned
against the war the president of the
Stop the War Coalition was Tony Benn
what does it make you feel like when you
just mentioned Libya in Syria there that
his son mooches still presumably on the
backbenches arrival to Jeremy Corbyn
made speeches lauded by the BBC and the
Murdoch press for supporting wars on
Libya and Syria
well that was particularly painful no
doubt although Hillary been supported
the war at the time even when his father
was the leader of the anti-war movement
I'm not sure what kind of family
relations that produced certainly
inconceivable to me
but hey labor have funny attitudes on
that one Miliband stabbed the other
Miliband in the back so familial loyalty
is not their strong point it makes me
feel even worse though when members of
parliament say to me as many many did I
wish we'd listened to you over Iraq I
want to say to them what kind of member
of parliament are you that can be so
easily led into such a gigantic
disaster I believe the Iraq war was the
biggest mistake since the first world
war in British history and the first
world war led ineluctably to our steady
weakening as a country in fact you can
trace the decline of Britain to the
first world war and the invasion and
occupation of Iraq is the the next
biggest blunder and the next biggest
crime see nearly up to today the 14th
anniversary
there was a monument and ceremony for
the veterans of Iraq and Afghanistan
Tony Blair was an honored guest the
queen said and I quote Britain
endeavoured to contribute peace and
stability to Iraq she should never have
said that because I don't think that she
believes that Iraq has been utterly
destroyed and the extremism it has
brought forth has cascaded around the
world even on to our own streets so no
one in the right mind thinks that we
contributed to peace or stability in
Iraq and the Queen should not have said
that even adding insult to injury I
don't know if you've seen the monument
but the soldier in bronze that's carved
chiseled out there there's a remarkable
ambulance to Tony Blair because you
criticized the memorial anyway even if
they had come what memorial do you think
there should be though Britain's war and
only fitting memorial to the Iraq war is
Tony Blair on trial nothing else will do
and as long as God gives me breath and
after me my many sons we will never stop
until justice has been done I should say
that your film also makes clear that
it's not of course just Tony Blair's
fault it's a structure the memorial you
just spoke about is sponsored by BAE
Systems and the Murdoch Sun newspaper is
it still these structures that people
should be wary of let alone individuals
because the coup could not have happened
if the people in the institutions had
not gone along with it you see Joe had a
long parade of people in the civil
service Foreign Office intelligence
community in the military saying that
they always knew that this was a bad
idea but they didn't tell us so at the
time and if they had it might not have
gone ahead in our film the Honourable
former ambassador Craig Murray quotes
the former head of the Middle East desk
in the Foreign Office saying that WMD
the claims were he asked him is it truly
ok don't comes on a show quite a bit yes
and he's from Dundee as I am a
remarkable number of Scottish people in
this story but he served bill as years
now was asked by Craig Murray is it true
about weapons of mass destruction and he
said of course not it's box well that
means the very top of the Foreign Office
was wilfully keeping silent while a
prime minister lied to the country and
to the Armed Forces was leading us into
a disaster and what kind of an
intelligence community tells us after
the fact that they were wholly against
this attack on Iraq and predicted as I
did exactly what the outcome would be
but did nothing to try and stop it
that's why I call it a coup
it was a hijacking of the Great Britain
airliner and we flew it to destruction
arguably the deep state in Reverse that
Donald Trump faces the Donald Trump
keeps trying to say anyway that he was
opposed to the Iraq war are their forces
that within without outside his control
in the United States that would get him
into Wars and therefore everywhere I'm
sure about that and it's remarkable how
all these liberals that supported
Hillary Clinton are now in open embrace
of the likes of John McCain and the CIA
and the so-called intelligence community
who used to be described by such
liberals as a nest of sand burglars and
subvert us and coup makers they are now
being embraced by liberals as a stick to
beat Trump with what's Trump's flagship
policy friendship with Russia and end to
the escalation at least of tension with
Russia well there's a big industry would
lose a lot of money and a lot of power
and influence if such a reduction in
tension took place the whole
military-industrial complex the
intelligence community the war mongering
politicians that all be out of a job one
way or another if there was no longer
any possibility of military
confrontation with Russia
so whether they'll succeed in subverting
wrecking Trump's flagship policy remains
to be seen but that's definitely what
they are up to George Galloway thank you
the blood after the break we get the
pulse of the UK Parliament after a week
of referendum threats political u-turns
and the largest find by regulators ever
of a British political party goal is
amore gumming up invite to of going
underground
[Music]
welcome back while following a week in
which the British Queen a sent it to
brexit the government here you turned on
its budget Scottish and Irish
nationalists called for the breakup of
the UK and the largest fine by
regulators ever of a British political
party the Tories we took our cameras
outside Parliament to speak to
representatives of the Conservatives
labour and the Scottish National Party
with me now is the former vice chair of
the Conservative Party the Conservative
MP for the Ribble Valley
Nigel Evans Nigel thanks for coming out
on the green just before we get to
brexit matters
what on earth of the Conservative Party
been doing let alone to resume chief of
staff as regards election expenses yeah
I mean it's it's not brilliant let's be
fair but what's happened is that they've
used a battle bus to ferry volunteers
around the country to help on the
election campaigns in certain seats it
should have been part of the national
expenses campaign and now it's being
reinterpreted that it should have been
logged as as a constituency evaluation
each MP is allowed to spend about
thirteen to fifteen thousand pounds per
general election campaign and clearly a
number of them have not put it in as to
their local expenses because they were
told it was a national expense so the
party's now been fined 70,000 pounds
immediate by-elections the end of
tourism a no eruption no no because
other parties have also been in the
large fines in history yeah other
parties have been fined as well I think
what it means and other parties use
battle buses too they're all gonna have
to sit down and rework this through so
that when the 2020 general election
comes they will know whether it's a
constituency expense or whether it's a
national expense I feel very sorry for
the MPs involved they didn't ask for the
battle bus you know the back there told
the battle bus is coming and they were
told it was a national expense and now
you know clearly each of them are being
interviewed because they didn't include
it in their local expenses because you
feel sorry for the MPs only I think
they've been led out to drive and I
think the part I know resumes TV well
well no I think the I think the party
that we've got a new party chairman and
I'm rather hoping that he will clarify
the situation
and take responsibility for the fact
that during the general election it was
their battle birth it was a national
expense it wasn't a local expense if you
were vice-chair of the party still what
would you be saying not months ago I'd
have said to the party chairman clarify
the situation make a statement take
responsibility on behalf of the party
and clearly that hasn't happened and MPs
have been left out to dry well we can't
go into it much further what with the
Crown Prosecution servicing the police
now involved let's turn to brexit what
do you think on reflection of the antics
of the House of Lords as regards article
15 well they they asked the House of
Commons to think again over two
amendments which we did last week and we
decided by very strong majorities that
we didn't want their amendments we sent
it back to them and they conceded so in
many ways the House of Lords actually
work properly had they got involved in a
game of ping pong then that would have
been another situation completely I mean
the party that has been badly treating
the electorate have been the Liberal
Democrats and they were the ones that
didn't even vote for it on third reading
and they were the ones that were
shouting in the House of Lords last week
when the House of Lords actually
conceded defeat but the Queen gave royal
assent to be the bill it's now an act a
last Thursday and now it will be up for
Theresa May over the next few days to
make it clear when she's going to
trigger article 50 we can then get on
with the negotiations and leave the
European Union the Lib Dems probably
still say they want a second referendum
but was that valuable time lost we heard
David Davis saying there's no
contingency plans for no deal being made
is that because the government were too
worried about what that allowed to do
when David Cameron was Prime Minister he
made it absolutely clear the referendum
was a one-off it was once in a
generation people to have their say
there was no talk of a second referendum
then the Lib Dems don't forget were the
party that stopped us having that
referendum in the 2010 2015 term because
of the coalition Nick Clegg refused to
allow David Cameron to hold the
referendum in that period and so I don't
think we'll be taking in any lectures
off the Lib Dems about a second
referendum when they stopped the first
one happening five years ago because
isn't I mean it was Jeremy Corbyn of
course it's come under a lot of flack
who
said that your party is in chaos and
your government didn't get you got the
u-turn of a Hammond you've got David
Davis saying no contingency plan and
then all of this stuff about I thought
Theresa Mays response to him was
brilliant she said if ever I'm going to
take any lessons from the Honourable
member about chaos I'll come straight to
him his party is in disarray when
Theresa May announced during Prime
Minister's Questions that she was
reversing the budget decision on
national insurance Jeremy Corbyn was so
ill-prepared he stuck with the same six
questions that he had prior to the
announcement being made absolute
shambles and you can just look at the
Labour MP sitting around him this is a
party in absolute disarray there's
absolutely no leadership there
whatsoever
Nigel Evan say it with me is the
Treasury spokesman of the SNP Roger
Mullen yes we'll be at Westminster Roger
thanks for coming out on the green just
before we go to talk about other things
that well what did you make of the
Electoral Commission appearing to say
you know when political parties are fine
they might just think it's a price worth
paying to win elections in Britain is
that corruption to be honest I think the
comment is absolutely justified I think
really what they were in part seeing was
the family can impose or too small I
mean the fame is smaller than the amount
that the Tories cheated by which seems
very strange indeed so I think what they
have said is perfectly appropriate but
around the world it will really really
be seen as buying elections yeah I can
say he wasn't there
okay let's go to another impending
election and a Post article 50 election
as the independence of Scotland what did
you make of the fact that NATO
secretary-general Ian Sultan Berg said
Scotland would have to reapply to NATO's
in every the Scottish people would have
to reapply to NATO and the EU if you get
independent I thought it was
extraordinary the first thing that they
thought was does that mean that they are
going to immediately start removing the
trade and naval base which is the neuter
base and other things so I kind of see
that being anything other than a bit of
fancy rhetoric to please the thousand
vestments but I don't think there's any
substance to it whatsoever
I know the government continually
lambaste the SNP over any possible
funding of a future independent Scotland
I understand you did ask the Chancellor
some questions about his budget as I'm a
question about his budget the global the
u-turn that they made suddenly and I
asked them since the decision we know
was made at 8 o'clock in the morning was
this u-turn in the budget through
cabinet because normally a budget gets
approved through the cabinet process and
he admitted that the rizona himself in
feliza may made the decision the cabinet
were kept out of it so it was like
saying well we just dispense with
cabinet government from the purpose of
getting out the mess we get into other
constitutional it was pretty
extraordinary and in the back of my
equation a bit later on my colleague
Alex Salmond raised a pint of other with
the speaker about one of us is
appropriate to bypass cabinet but on the
other hand resumes the First Lord of the
Treasury
Azumi lady of the Treasury well yes but
but there is collective responsibility
in the government particularly all the
financial matters all the financial
matters government carry collective
responsibility for all decisions so it
just says the full budget had to get new
cabinet so the u-turn and the budget
should have gone through cabinet and it
didn't and just another element of this
budget that may not have been remarkable
as much as we had the self-employed tax
credit you appears here believe that
they sort of haven't snuck through
something about the UK becoming a tax
haven without anyone noticing
yeah the Treasury used a little-known
device called a legislative reform over
to try and create a new form of limited
partnership which is the type of thing
I've managed to get an inquiry into
because the susceptible to all sorts of
criminality we try to sneak that through
without it going through the House of
Commons the proper legislative procedure
that doesn't mean that there obviously
they want a criminality in Britain but
surely the work to reduce regulation to
make it easier for all sorts of people
internationally we already know that the
people who are rather shady from Ukraine
Moldova and the lake have been using UK
limited partnerships to hate criminal
assets but they never seem to want to
create yet another vehicle where it's
even easier to abuse and that's why I've
been campaigning to get it stopped
fortunately we've managed to get into
boots I stay on that until as a further
review undertaken so I am submitting
more than 40 pages of information on
criminality associated with it
symptomatic of a post brexit taxing in
future from britain I certainly think
from the rest in the committee that this
order was placed before a why did we
need this and the answer was so that we
remain competitive and so the question
then was competitive with whom for this
type of thing and the were only able
treasure were only able to name two
places the Channel Islands and
Luxembourg if we're having to be
regulate because we're afraid of
competition and the financial sector
from the Channel Islands it tells you
how concerned they are about the post
brexit world Whelan Roger Allen thank
you well with me is the opposition Whip
Nick Dakin Nick thanks so much for
joining us on the green will ignore the
spectacular government u-turn for a
second attack is labor for brexit
well we campaigned to remain in the
European is it now thought that was the
right thing to do but the people have
spoken in the referendum result and I
think we have a duty to respect that and
that's why I voted along with my
colleagues to support the triggering of
article 50 but what people didn't say is
what would brexit look like and we need
to make sure that we have fullest
possible access to the single market to
the customs union and make sure that the
jobs of the people I represent aren't
damaged by leaving the European Union
your leader elected by the greatest
mandate arguably of any Socialist Party
in Western Europe
he's always argued against neoliberalism
ironic that you're hedging your bets
there on Brecht it's still talking about
how you campaign to remain what's the
point of that why not embrace it from a
from a Ben I'd stand
I think we have to embrace it now and we
have to work to make sure we get the
best outcome for working people in this
country but that's going to be a real
challenge this trigger is going to take
place before the end of this month and
then two years the country has to sort
out one of the most complicated deals in
our history that's a massive massive
challenge to the government though it's
also a challenge to us our job is to try
and help the government get a good deal
and that means challenging them in areas
where they don't want to be challenged
as well as areas where they probably
expect a challenge I mentioned Ben I not
leaves me as three years ago tony benn
died
because he wanted us out of the European
Union is there no understanding within
the present Labor Party of a great
enthusiasm for brexit and what it may
mean for social justice in this country
there's clearly an enthusiasm to come
out of Europe from people who voted for
that but also that a lot of people voted
for remain you know $0.48 people those
who remain and the young people you see
on those the green today the majority of
them voted to remain in Europe so
there's a big challenge about keeping
the country together through this
challenge through this difficult time
and we've got to get an outcome which is
in the interest of our country and there
are opportunities in that and we need to
take those opportunities that they're
also rich because the Prime Minister
appear to be talking about trade deals
like seater and again neoliberal trade
deals in there's a chance for labor to
counter by saying there was always been
against the neoliberal you miss I think
that there's always we've always had an
issue with over liberalisation on the
other hand trade as a generator of
prosperity and one of the reasons people
today have better lives in terms of more
prosperous lives and they're the
generation that came before is because
trade has helped do that and you know
you talk about Sita for example that's a
good example of a trade deal which is
likely to benefit working people across
the whole of the European Union
including the UK made teachers a good
thing it took seven years to negotiate
even though it may allow courts to rule
in favor of American hell
companies via Canada against the
National Guard like that you know that's
a sort speculation which is unlikely to
happen so it's a sort of scare mongering
that people indulge in when they're not
focused on the real issues which is
about making the lives of the people
that I represent better
isn't this the problem with the Labour
Party you're responsible one of the
people responsible for opposing some
kind of order
what do you hear amongst the party do
they really want Corbin to fight a
rearguard action against Rexford but we
need to support the latest directions of
the manifesto commitments that we put in
place at the last election and that's
what we are trying to do we're trying to
take the battle to this government we've
just seen the biggest u-turn on a budget
since the budget last year they've you
turned on four billion pounds of Pitts
cuts this time last year they've just
used turned on 2 billion pounds against
all of our honourable our of Nick cuts
this year so this is a government in in
normal times in crisis and chaos now our
job is to expose that and make clear
that there is an alternative of that
alternative by supporting the labor
force so what is the alternative I mean
you just you're four-seater to your wit
to resume on that it seems to be no
different and if anything Jeremy Corbyn
was against the butan because he was
saying that the 2 billion pounds should
appear to be saying we've got to balance
the budget not go for Keynesian
infrastructure us know we should really
stay no we absolutely should be spending
this money on investing in skills and
investing in infrastructure that's what
we should be doing and that's the way to
generate greater wealth and greater
prosperity in the UK and that's what yet
labour has been arguing for sometimes I
think of it for example the steel
industry which is close to my heart
representing as a steel town in the area
I come from and some pop we need to see
more building going on which benefits
infrastructure and brings jobs to that
industry executives thank you thank you
[Music]
well that's it for the show we're back
on Wednesday when we asked British
Pierre Gautama about the real reason why
tens of millions of people are facing
starvation in South Sudan till then keep
in touch via social media film Wednesday
72 years to the day that the Arab League
was founded in Egypt